Inside the Mayo Lab: Key Takeaways from Season 2

Nov 14

Inside the Mayo Lab:

Dr. Rosenthal
& Alexis

The Mayo Lab Podcast’s final episode of the fall programming brought together co-hosts Dr. Meagen Rosenthal and Alexis Lee to discuss the takeaways they’ve learned from the last 11 episodes. Together, they reflected on what incremental steps they can take to instill better habits, align with their values and help their community evolve.

All season, the Mayo Lab Podcast guests have spoken about how humans want quick fixes for the challenges in their lives. Dr. Rosenthal and Alexis stressed the importance of understanding that habit formation and embodying your values takes time. It’s okay to adapt and modify routines as circumstances change. What can help, Dr. Rosenthal shared, is acknowledging and focusing in on your core priorities, just like previous guest Dr. Haines taught.

“I went down this list [of priorities], and it was like Dr. Haines had said. It ended up being four or five things that were just the top priority…And so as the email requests or text messages were coming in, I could refer to them and say, ‘Okay, is this in my top list of priorities? No? Okay, well, that can wait until tomorrow,” Dr. Rosenthal shared.

“We talk about wellness as if it’s a destination, like it’s a place you’ll get to, and then it will be nirvana, roses and sunshine. And that's totally not accurate or realistic, and it really … sets us up for failure, because there's always a sense of moving the goalpost … And that’s just not a really effective way to think about the world in terms of our wellness and our family’s wellness and our community’s wellness.”

— Dr. Meagen Rosenthal

The hosts highlighted that wellness and good habits are an ongoing journey, a process that will change as one moves through life. Self-reflection and self-compassion can be crucial in navigating these changes and continuing on the path to wellness. Embracing the evolving nature of life is vital for finding balance in different season.

Finally, Dr. Rosenthal and Alexis discussed the essential role of community for each person’s wellbeing. It’s normal to feel isolated when you’re struggling or feel a sense of responsibility for your own challenges, but asking your community support not only can help lift obstacles in your way, it can also make them feel better.

“…I heard this a couple of weeks ago and it really struck me,” said Dr. Rosenthal, “that when you're not asking for help when you need it, you're actually depriving your community of an opportunity to feel really great for helping you.”

To hear more from Episode 11 of Season 2, scroll down to listen to the episode or read the transcript.

Watch the podcast on YouTube:

Meagen Rosenthal:
I'm Meagen Rosenthal.
Alexis Lee:
And I'm Alexis Lee, and this is the Mayo Lab Podcast.
Well, hello everyone and welcome back to the Mayo Lab podcast, final episode of regular programming, at least for the fall. And we're just so excited to be back and talk about the season so far. And for those of you that don't know and aren't in Mississippi, the day we record this, this is day two of kind of winter. We got an early winter, so we're going to have a full fireside chat.
Meagen Rosenthal:
There we go. I love it. I love it.
Alexis Lee:
So this is going to be just kind of overviewing the season, recapping things. And I think Meagen and I have pulled out some or we have noticed some very consistent and common themes throughout the season, throughout all 11 episodes. And so we're just going to talk about them and bring things up, maybe more talk about things we've learned or what we're implementing, maybe. So we're really excited.
So Meagen, where would you like to start?
Meagen Rosenthal:
Well, so I can't believe we actually did 11 episodes this season so far. That's really exciting. I have kind of lost track and they've all blurred together in the best possible way. But in anticipation of this chat today, I started thinking about, I think at least anyway, we gave some really good information. We spoke to some really amazing experts in their spaces who provided a lot of really tangible things that we could be doing. And admittedly some of them I have started doing and thinking about this in a different kind of way. But then I got to thinking about the magnitude of the stuff we covered over 11 episodes and it's so much. So really good stuff, but I also started thinking, "Gosh, that's really overwhelming."
There's just a lot of stuff that we need to be thinking about and doing, and this is in addition to raising our kids to be decent human beings and drinking enough water, but not too much water, and eating our vegetables, and exercising, and doing all of those things that we know are good for us, but not necessarily straightforward to implement into our day-to-day lives. And it struck me that oftentimes, at least for myself when I get all this really great stuff, yes, I should do it, the first reaction is, "Why am I not doing it already? Is that because I'm not a good person? Maybe I should be doing things better or harder." And then you get that shame and that guilt for not being above and beyond in all of these different spaces.
And so I thought maybe we could start today by working through for you and I how we break down doing these kinds of things in our day-to-day life, and maybe tell a few stories about how we've started implementing practices, whether they are related to what we did in the podcast or other pieces, just to provide folks with some context and some larger understanding about we're not all perfect, we're not going to win every day, we're not going to get it right every day, but how do we start making those incremental, like this YouTube channel that I follow for workouts, 1% better every day? How do we start doing that? And I'd be curious to note from you, Alexis, how do you start thinking about these things. And I know you have a longer trajectory than many of us as it relates to health and wellness and things like that, but working in this space, how do you do that? How do you get 1% better every day, or maybe 0.5% better?
Alexis Lee:
0.5% better, yeah, just a little bit better every day. And I think it comes down to really taking inventory. And we talked about this a little bit in the most recent episode with Dr. Bradshaw and Dr. Smith of, what are your values? What do I value? And I've had a lot of good conversations, actually just very recently with friends, family, people I'm very close to about values and breaking down values. I think we get that lost a lot. We forget at the core of us, we have these values, these things we want to embody or things we're striving towards. And so when you know those and you're really familiar with those and how those interact with your life, I think it makes it much easier when you hold other things up and say, "Well, should I do this in a way?" Or "Does this align with where I want to be or where I want to go?"
And so being in this space and doing this work, I've gotten really passionate about educating myself and others. And so I think one of the best examples, most recent that has been implemented in my life and my friends and family life is the correcting people on the spot for different verbiages or incorrect verbiages or educating them in a way that's helpful or maybe funny. My parents now all joke before they speak, they'll say, "Well, Alexis is probably going to correct me, but..." They've all started thinking about it and at least it starts spinning in their head, and then they haven't even really used maybe incorrect language or offensive language. We've all started using person-first language in our house, which I think is really cool. And it started kind of as a joke, and now it's just become something that for them and they've realized, "Wow, this is important and it matters." And so that to me is part of my value.
But another thing Cal brought up in the first episode, we're in an election year in Mississippi. I never thought about that at all to talk to or learn about the people that are running that maybe mental health and wellbeing and addiction or recovery is very important to them. And so that was something that for me, I reflected and was like, "Wow, I'm a voting member. I get to do this, so I want to make it count." And I know that I didn't really think I had a voice, and I mean maybe don't, that's a whole other podcast, but at least I can feel good when I go and say, "Wow, I really believe in this person," and so that's been really interesting. And then just taking nuggets of Dr. McAfee said three good things every day, which I kind of did, and so I just refined it a little bit.
And so it's also reminding myself of the small successes that I'm already doing, and maybe you're kind of already doing something mentioned and you just want to tweak it a little bit, or maybe what they said doesn't work for you and you want to keep your way, but we're all doing the best we can, like you said. And it's hard to do everything all day every day. 1% better, 1% forward or what's relevant in the season of life here. And we talked a little bit about that yesterday.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Yeah, you just covered a whole football field of stuff, but I think there's a couple of things that I want to come back to that you talked about in particular. And the first is getting into understanding what your values are and digging into that. So talk to me, how did you get into that process for yourself? How do you identify what is important to you or not important to you? I think we often throw this idea around, "Oh, get in touch with your values or understand your values," but do we know what that means? And are what I'm saying my values are actually aligned with my real values, the stuff that's in the center of your heart, in the middle of your body? You know what I mean?
Alexis Lee:
Right.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Tell me a little bit about how you did that.
Alexis Lee:
So obviously we've talked about this. I'm in recovery, I work a program, so part of that has been learning a lot about myself and what I value and what I love and what's at the core of me, like you said. But one of the books I read actually last winter break was Think Like a Monk by Jay Shetty, and there's a portion in it that talks about your higher values and your lower values. And so that really started me thinking. I had a spark, but maybe the fire really caught at that.
And so he gave a list of values and they were values that I'd never really heard of or they were worded differently. And so with a very much of a lens on myself, I went to Google and I got very careful though, but pulled up what are different values or other things as a brainstorming exercise and slowly had a whole schwak of words and then slowly narrowed down to... And I think Dr. Haines talked a bit bit about this of like, okay, you slowly work your way down to what matters. And so had five or six and then shared it with people really close to me, and I still haven't really shared it outside that group. And so it's been like a refining year, I guess, if I'd say, of having people hold me accountable to that, of people I trust, whether that be a friend, a family member, someone that's a third party, a sponsor, other people that see me in different spaces, and so they can kind of hold me accountable.
I think also in values I can speak to, when I was in college, I kind of felt like I was two different people. And we've had some people talk a little bit about, I was someone in the classroom, but I was someone then on the weekends. And so I think I've gotten to the point in my life, and it's taken a long time to say I can be the same person in all the rooms I'm in, but it's having all those people in the different rooms I'm in hold me to that. And if someone who knows me in church, do they say the same thing? Would you say the same thing about me, Meagen, and work? Would my mom said the same thing about me at home? Really trying to drill down to that. And honestly, the more I've gotten drilled down into my values, the more everything else seems to just fall into place.
And I know that sounds really simple and like, "Whoa, okay, Alexis," but it really makes it a lot easier for me to say, if this is what I value, it's really black or white, then the actions I take and the things I do to day, because I want those to mirror, like you said, what's inside and what reflects. I think back to the, if you plant a seed, what fruit are you going to get? And that takes a long time, and I don't think we can all say, if I change my value to service today, tomorrow, I'm going to be a servant-hearted person. It doesn't take overnight. It might take years, months, I mean, maybe weeks, depends on how close you already are to it. So that's been how I started the value journey. So yeah, if you haven't, Think Like a Monk by Jay Shetty is a great book and I love it, but there's a lot of different resources and I'm sure we can find some and we'll link those in the show notes too.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think that somebody was talking about values and I can't remember which it was, so we'll have to go back and look at our notes from before about doing a measure related to that. But one of the things I like about what you just said around values is that you've refined those over time, that this wasn't something that you woke up and you're like, "Okay, my values are good." And then you've been thinking about them and that you've had this evolution of you as a person going from feeling like two separate people, what you do in class, what you do on the weekends, to those two people meeting and becoming one.
And I think it's important, especially this time of year, talking to our student listeners, that's normal. That's normal. It's normal to feel chaotic and spastic and stressed and all of those different things. That's totally normal for somebody who's in your position at your moment in time. And to be thinking through how do we make one step in that direction to getting those two people united into somebody that you can feel proud of, and that is reflected in that space, and this is a normal part of that process. And I think had a similar kind of journey thinking through my latest iteration of values. I think that values can also change somewhat depending on the season of life that you're in.
Alexis Lee:
I think they should, yeah.
Meagen Rosenthal:
I think they should too. If you are in school and doing all of the things that are related to school, maybe you have to sacrifice time with your family on the weekends. Maybe you have to sacrifice going home on a regular basis because right now school's got to be that priority. It's not forever, but it's a moment in time that those things have to shift somewhat.
And I did that reshifting again a few years ago, and this is related to work things because one of the benefits of maybe being good at your job is that you get more work. And so people recognize your value and your contributions, and then they're like, "Okay, you can do this and this is a really cool thing, and here's this other opportunity," and then suddenly your nose is just peeking out above the water. And so I sat down and I really recalibrated that for myself to think, okay, my family's really important. Having time with them to unwind and do that, that's a really key important value for me. When and if my students need something from me, okay, that's a really important thing to be responsive to their needs.
And so I went down this list and it was like Dr. Haines had said, it ended up being four or five things that were just the top priority. And what I ended up doing at one point is writing them on a sticky note because I love sticky notes. Anybody who knows me knows I love sticky notes, and I put it on my computer. And so as the email requests were coming in or text messages were coming in, I could refer to that and say, "Okay, is this in my top list of priorities? No? Okay, well that can wait until tomorrow because I have these other things that are more important today." And it is, like you said, for me, it became so much easier to make those decisions about how I was going to engage in that moment in time. And it really did help solidify and get me through a really stressful time and place in that season of my life. And now that I say that out loud, I really need to do it again because life is lifing and it's crazy.
The other thing I wanted to talk to you about too, and I totally lost my train of thought, but we were talking through how do you implement those changes and how do you actualize or embody, or what have you, your values. And so talk me through habit formation for you. How do you do that? So you talked about your three good things. How did you start that process and refine it after what Dr. McAfee said about in our previous episode around that, the value of those?
Alexis Lee:
Yeah. I used to, as in until a month ago, I had a morning journal practice and an evening journal practice. And so I used to do gratitude and both, and gratitude would be, I would do something simple like nature or fresh air, something not targeted specifically. It was just a general, what am I thankful for today? Maybe the sunrise or maybe I saw a friend. And so reshifting that practice to the three good things of what happened today that was good, and then why did that happen? Like he said, being able to say, "Okay, well, why?" I'm trying to think of a good recent example that I wrote down.
My mom is currently over here when we're recording this, and so she decided to come over to spend time here. And so I got really intentional time and I've had really intentional quality time with my mom. So it's like, why did that happen? Well, that happened because I was very open and honest with my mom. There were weeks before that about some time and space. We had a family emergency, and now we're all stepped away from that a little bit and getting a break. Being open and honest with her how hard that was for me, but also how good it's been for me to be back in a routine here around my people. And she was kind of like, "I really need that too." And so having her feel like she can come over and have that time and space because I was vulnerable and honest, opened that door up in a way.
And so just reflecting that made it so much more sweet just to say, "Wow, I have my time with my mom," but also, "Wow, I have a relationship with my mom that is that honest and open," and we've built that. It wasn't like that in college. And so being her adult child now, it's like our relationship's grown so much, but it's not grown overnight. So being able to backtrack and say, "Okay, how did that happen?" And then I started reflecting more, and I have it in a journal, so my good point ends up being whole page along because journaled about it, which is sweet and reminds me just to continue to do the work. But other practices I'm putting into place I think is just taking time as every good habit does.
It doesn't always stick, and so I try to, every month or every other month... My morning and evening routine are really sacred to me, and we've talked about this in the office, how much those are important to both of us. So month to month, what's working. Maybe now that it's darker out and colder out, darker earlier than evening, there's different things that I need or I want in my evening routine versus maybe my summer one. So just shifting and ebbing and flowing, and we were talking about with Dr. Smith and Dr. Bradshaw, one size doesn't fit all and nor does one size fit all for even the year you're in and reminding that. And so I think people get stuck on, if I want to have it, I should have it right away instead of knowing it takes time. And however many days it takes for habit to catch on. There's signs behind it, but it doesn't happen overnight.
And I think we're in a society very much, and we've talked about it a little bit throughout, I think, the whole season of a quick fix. Something that happens right away, we have instant gratification, online shopping, social media, all the things, we want things right away, and so forgetting the work you have to put in and build. But I think if you know why you're building a habit, why you're doing something, back to your value or why it's important to you, it makes it much easier.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Absolutely.
Alexis Lee:
And it's made it easier for me to let go of habits, maybe because they just aren't sticking and it's because I really don't care. Or it was something like cliche or I saw on social media and maybe it wasn't working for me.
Meagen Rosenthal:
I love that recognition too, right? Because if it isn't aligned, then why are we wasting time doing it? Another cliche, the day is the day. We have that amount of time, it's 24 hours, whatever. So why would you waste your time doing something and engaging in something that's not of value to you? If you get influenced by something on social media, "You should whatever, blah, blah, blah," and you're like, "Well, I don't actually care about that. It's not important to me."
If it's not important to you, good. You've made a decision, right? You've made a recognition, and then you can refocus that attention on a thing that is really and truly important to you. And what's important to me and what's important to you shouldn't and don't have to be the same. And that's a totally, again, normal thing, and I think we embrace that idea in our off-public lives. We all know these things to be true, but we just don't necessarily embody them in what we perceive or what we put on social or what have you. But I think, again, we all know these things are real.
Alexis Lee:
And what I do love about social media is that there is so many people out there that are sharing what they do. And so there is so many places where you can go to be inspired or find ideas, but no, you don't have to do it all. Even those girls, I'll just use these example, those "That girl" routines. Let's be honest, they're not doing it every day.
Meagen Rosenthal:
No.
Alexis Lee:
No, they're not. And so it's taking that lens on like we talked about too, of that's their highlight reel, or maybe that's what they do one day out of the week. It's not day to day.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Right. No, I love that. I think that's a really cool comment. And the other thing, I want to come back to your mom and the conversation that you have been joyfully having with them around use of language in person-first language. And what I want to commend you on is doing that from a place of grace and compassion. I think as we start to learn more good stuff, whatever the good stuff is in, how to be healthier, how to be more compassionate to our fellow man, how to understand the impact and the consequences of substance use disorder in that community. And you can insert whatever thing you want to learn in this space here, but that if we are really looking to spread that, which is a major theme of what we talked about in this season, is, starting with ourselves, spreading it to our families, and then out to our communities.
Doing that with grace, love, and compassion is such an important thing to consider because if you look at the data and the literature that's around changing hearts and minds, I can promise you, I can promise you beyond a shadow of a doubt, no one ever changed their mind after you called them stupid to their face. That has never been a thing that has taken place. If you come down on somebody and say, "How dare you use blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?" Or, "How dare you say this?" Or, "Don't you know, idiot person?" What happens if somebody talks like that to you, right? You shut down, you don't listen anymore, you become defensive, and then all of the good information is lost.
And I think that how you started that in a kind of teasing way and from a place of love and compassion to your parents knowing that you're wanting to move them in a slightly different way than they may have been used to talking before, and that they can joke back with you and be like, "Well, I might be doing this wrong," but they feel safe to be wrong in front of you and know from within themselves that they're also going to get the good information and they'll try again next time. And I think that's a really important thing for us to be thinking about around these topics for ourselves and for our families. You can always try again tomorrow. You can always start this over.
I think about this as it relates to diet and exercise. Not diet as in the not great diet of you should be losing weight or what have you, though I've done that too. But this idea of eating healthier or eating green things more often than you maybe had been, is that, okay, so I have a bad day. I can start tomorrow. I can start next week. I can be in a season where things are crazy and hectic and not going my way, and then it slows down some and I can start it again. And that's totally fine. And I think that we need to be thinking about how to extend that grace to ourselves and to everyone. Know better, do better. Try again. It'll be okay.
Alexis Lee:
It's our new saying in the office. Know better, do better.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Right, right, right. We totally stole that from Maya Angelou, just for clarity's sake. But yes, right?
Voiceover:
You are listening to the Mayo Lab podcast. For more information and resources, visit themayolab.com. Now back to the episode.
Alexis Lee:
And I think it's too important. Like you said, you can always start again, and even in the day, if you catch yourself in the midday. And I think too, yes... And recently too, I've been like, "If I just get through November." And it's October 31st when we're recording. This is so close. I'm like, "Can I just get to November?" And so I've been there, but I've also been like, "Okay, today's not going well. I can start again this afternoon. I've been on social media all morning, so I can stop right now."
I don't have to say, "Well, my limit's already done for the day. I might as well just keep going." I can say, "Okay, no, now I'm done." Or, "Well, I've already eaten the three sweets, so I might as well keep going." It's like, "No, I can stop round two." But there is that season, like you said, it depends on where you're at. Maybe you do just need to get to the end of the week or the end of the season or end of the month. We've all been there.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Absolutely, yes. And for those of you who are listening who are coming to the events next week, this is what we're talking about. So we're October 31st. We have a big event on Monday next week, and then on Wednesday too we have some other things going on, so you'll know where our headspace is when you listen to this episode when we see you next week. And I'm exactly in the same spot too, right?
I have a big grant that's due tomorrow, and it's been the biggest grant that I've ever worked on. And this is, for those of you who don't know, people who work at universities, faculty and professors, often have to submit applications to get funding to do our research. And so this one is going to the National Institutes of Health, hopefully, fingers crossed. But that's this huge undertaking. Our application's 150 pages long. I think I looked at it this morning. And so getting all of that together, herding all the cats in a good direction, that's just a lot. And so I've not worked out as much as I would normally or would like to. I've worked on the weekends. I can't work in the evenings because my brain is mush, which I tend not to do. And so as we've got that application put in today or tomorrow, hopefully, that'll recalibrate this weekend. So not checking email, not looking at things, and it's going to take a minute for me to get used to not doing that again because you just get in the habit of doing it.
But I also know that for myself, I need to have that break to be good at my job during the week. I can't be on 24/7, even though that is part of our hustle culture, and if you're not on, you're not being productive. I know for me, to be good at that and to be able to be engaging with people during the week and be my best version of myself, I can't do that on the weekends. I need to be away and not have to talk to people and not have to do that kind of stuff, even though I love talking to people, just know that too. But I do need that. And so it's going to take me a few weekends to reestablish that good habit that I had before, and that's normal and okay. And I'll get back there again and then I'll mess it up again too. That's part of being a human being. We're never going to get it right.
I think that's the other thing I was thinking about in anticipation of this discussion, is that we talk about wellness as if it's a destination, like it's a place you'll get to and then it will be nirvana, roses and sunshine. And that's totally not accurate, realistic, and it really does actually, if you look at the literature around this, sets us up for failure because there's always a sense of moving the goalpost. Okay, you won that one, but you have this other thing now, this other thing now. And that's just not a really effective way to think about the world in terms of our wellness and our family's wellness and our community's wellness. There's not a place where you're going to get to go like, "Okay, I'm done."
Alexis Lee:
Right? Not that easy now. And one of the things you've brought up when you were speaking is, and I think we've heard about it throughout the season, is the essence of two things, of honesty, like honest communication and honest what you're going through. And so I know we talked in the office, I know Meagen's been going through this grant. I know she's been working on weekends because of this, so it's able for me to then go into community. So I'll start with there. You have to be honest and then have community around you. So now it's like, I can be of help to Meagen in a way, or I know Meagen's now almost done, and so she shouldn't be working on the weekends because I know your values and that. And I can be a person, and I know you've spoken probably to others who are close to you who know, it's like we have community around you in a way so that they can also help you and be accountable for you and also just uplift you.
We all know community and people are so important for things other than accountability, but just it's so important. And so what new things have you learned about community in this season and hearing everyone talk about it?
Meagen Rosenthal:
You just hit the nail on the head, right? Because I'm totally one of those people, and this is definitely to my detriment. I'm not good at asking for help. It's not a natural inclination for me to be like, "I'm really struggling right now and I need somebody to do this thing for me because I just can't." I'm always of the opinion, if you said yes to it, then you should do it. Because I'm a people pleaser too, it's the worst combination, so you say yes to everything and then you're underwater, and then you're not in alignment with what you want your values to be, how you want to exist and show up in the world.
And so that is one of the things I've been working on is letting things go and being like, "You know what? I need somebody else to take this on. And that has been one of... I mean, I love all of the parts of getting to work with you, but that has been one of the things I've taken from you, Alexis, is this partnership in this process and knowing that you want to help me and the institute be successful and that you're here as a partner in that process has made it safer for me to ask for help in other spaces. And so I think that's one of the things that I will continue to work on and to build out that community and to know too, whether I recognized it before, I had community.
I've always had community. We all have community, but you often get stuck in this idea of like, "Oh, I have to do it because I said I would do it because that is whatever," and this idea is all just about me in this case, and that's totally not true. And that you're actually, and I heard this a couple of weeks ago and it really struck me, that when you're not asking for help when you need it, you're actually depriving your community of an opportunity to feel really great for helping you.
Alexis Lee:
I love that.
Meagen Rosenthal:
And for somebody who struggles asking for help but is a helper, realizing that you're like, "Crap, I've been actually not a good friend and I've been depriving them of an opportunity," and not in a selfish way, but of them getting warm fuzzies or feeling good or feeling helpful because I didn't ask for that, and that's really helped me be thinking about it in a different way because, like I said, it's not natural for me.
Alexis Lee:
Yeah, and like you don't want to burden them.
Meagen Rosenthal:
That's right. Yes.
Alexis Lee:
I've thought about that in the past. I don't want to burden my friends with that. I have some friends that are very... I was gone for two weeks when I had a friend who checked on my house, who did all these things. She put dinner in my fridge the day I got back. Things like that is what she lives for. She would've done it, but I asked her for help on the front end. And I kept saying, "Thank you. I owe you. Thank you so much." She's like, "No, this is literally what we're here for." And I was like, "Wow." I've missed that so much of my life, like you're saying, because I thought I was going to burden people by bringing them into my life or bringing them close to me or asking for help.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Yes. And I think we have to get over this idea that it is a burden because it's not a burden. And if you are the kind of person, like Alexis and I are, to be helpers, do you feel burdened when somebody asks you for help? No. You just do it because that's what you're supposed to do, right? And so for those of us who are on the other side of that that aren't good at asking, we have to get out of our own way in that regard because we miss out on so much when we don't become a little vulnerable in that space. And I think that's really where it comes down to is how I worry that other people would see me not being good enough because I had to ask for help. And that's messed up if you say it like that. It's not right.
Alexis Lee:
Yeah. Once you actually reframe things a little bit, sometimes you're like, "Wait, no, that actually makes no sense."
Meagen Rosenthal:
Right.
Alexis Lee:
"Okay, back up." You talk yourself off a cliff and then it's like you talk yourself back up. You're like, "No, this actually makes sense." Like you're saying, to empower people and they want to be a service, why would I not? Why would I not?
Meagen Rosenthal:
Right? Right. So yeah, that's what this season has taught me about community is that we all have them and we just need to be better about mobilizing them and thinking about that and remembering that. And if we need to build a different community or add to our community. Everyone's looking for that, and so you just have to start, be a little bit brave, get out there. And we talked about that. How do you make friends, and how do you meet new people, and how do you have those conversations, in earlier episodes. And so if you've forgotten that or maybe missed that one, go back and take a listen to that and think about what does that look like for you and how do you align your new community partners, members, whomever, with your values, with the things that are really important to you at this moment in time.
Alexis Lee:
I think you said something really important of mobilizing your community and using them. And I think that, for me, is something I've begun to do in previous seasons. You realize then that there's people in your community that really aren't in line or aren't people that you want in your inner circle, or maybe they're on your acquaintance circle. When you mobilize them, you're able to get a real sense of... And this is going to sound not how I want it to sound, but you're able to realize who you need and who you don't.
But you don't know until you use your community and utilize that, and it's like, "Oh, maybe I'm missing a piece of my community. I'm missing someone that can play a really important role in my life, or I didn't think I wanted in my life. And no, actually their skills are really needed. I really need that person," but you don't know until you use. So don't be afraid to use your community. And then I think too, it helps to spur conversation both ways. Vulnerability breeds vulnerability. Brene Brown always says that. And so if me being vulnerable has encouraged friends and community to be more vulnerable, they can mobilize their community, and so it's like everyone's mobilizing. And so it's cool then to see the energy go and spread and you feel more empowered to go do other things outside of your comfort zone.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Right. And I love what you talked about too is this idea that once you do that mobilization, you realize that there are some people that maybe don't need to be in your inner circle. And I think oftentimes we think about that and we're like, "Oh my God, we're losing friends," or, "I'm going to hurt somebody's feelings," or whatever the case may be. And really, maybe he will. Maybe you will lose friends. Maybe he will hurt somebody's feelings because there's that lack of alignment happening. But thinking back to this idea of being brave and taking good steps for you, what's worse? What's worse? Having somebody in your circle who isn't feeding your advancement and aligning with the values that you are interested in mobilizing or pursuing at that moment in time, or having somebody in your life who has been there for a very long time, and that's just like momentum has carried you and continues to carry you forward.
And I think that's a hard lesson, and it was a hard lesson for me to have to learn as I was coming through graduating high school and going to college because I was one of, in my graduating class of friends, one of a handful of people that went to college. Most of the people that I was friends with in school didn't end up going to college or they went to different colleges and different spaces. And so that losing of friends was really traumatic at that time, but also the best possible thing for me because I was able to make new friends and be in different spaces and be a different version of Meagen than was in high school. I think lots of people that I went to high school with would look at me now and be like, "Wow, she's not the same person at all," and probably maybe a saltier version of what I was in high school, but this is more in alignment.
I feel more like me now than what you had talked about before, being those two separate people. And it took those hard things. And again, that's normal. It's totally normal. Everyone does it. We have this idea that as you get grown up, everything just is regulated and nothing bad happens to you. And it's this idea of you're getting to this penultimate moment where everything's just good and you don't have to try to do things anymore, and that's not true. There's always this evolution that's taking place as part of all aspects of life. We're always moving. We're going to get physics here, everything's always moving, right? Universe is expanding. It's true, but we get caught up in this idea that it has to be stagnant.
Alexis Lee:
And too, I think in season of friendships and community, you can have people not in your season now, but come back around. And I think this is something Dr. Bhardwaj talked about of people are going to change. When people go to recovery or to rehab or they go to intensive treatment of some sort, maybe you need to let that person go for a while and maybe they don't need to be in your circle. Let's probably be honest. They need some space and that's the hard... You want to love them, but you also need to not enable them, like he was talking about.
So maybe you need to let people go for a while, and maybe it's not something like rehab or intensive, maybe it's just they're in a different season of life, or you are growing more than they are and they're not running next to you, running the same race. But maybe in a couple years, weeks, months, whatever, they come back around and that's still okay. And you can have people enter in and in and out of your different seasons of life and not just ban them forever. It's not like you have to say, "Sorry, never again. We're not friends. This is it. We're done."
Meagen Rosenthal:
Absolutely.
Alexis Lee:
Just maybe not right now. And I've had people that are like, "Thank you so much," for that hard love of letting people go. Maybe helps them realize there's things they need to look at or realize or they feel the space then to grow. I've had a friend who's stepped away and been like, "I didn't realize how much I felt closed in. I felt like I needed space to grow and be my own person. I could be someone else, maybe not in the shadow of our group or whatever." And so that's good and okay, and then they come back around. And so it's not like end all, be all when people leave your community. And maybe it is, but also I think the older I've gotten, the more I realize it is still hard to make friends. It is. It really is.
Meagen Rosenthal:
It is.
Alexis Lee:
And so A, it doesn't have to be like we've talked about, but B, those people you have in your life, they can stay there forever, but maybe not consistently forever. Maybe there's seasons of ebb and flow. And just reminding that, like we said, not everything has to be all the time 100%.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Right. And I think about another example that I think about around that is because I'm amongst the only people in my friend group, or the only person in my friend group who doesn't have kids, don't have children. I have little dogs, but those don't count as kids, obviously. And so for some of the people that I have known for most of my life, they've got families, large families, it's not like we're not friends anymore, but they have different priorities. They have to take their kids to soccer and dance and hockey because many of them are Canadian. And so that doesn't mean they hate me, that doesn't mean they don't like me anymore, that doesn't mean that they don't value our friendship, but we have different priorities.
And I think about that as a student going to different professional programs or going into graduate school or going and moving in those different directions. Maybe your friends aren't doing that. Maybe your friends are done after four years and have gone off and gotten really amazing careers, but you really feel that pull to go do something else. Whatever that ends up looking like, that's okay. That doesn't mean that they don't like you. That doesn't mean that you're not being true to them. That doesn't mean that any of those things are true. It's just that you're on a slightly different path and that's fine, and you've defined a way.
If you're feeling that pull in your heart to do that next thing or be in a different space than the people around you, you've got to find a way to be okay with that. Because again, how awful would it be to get to the end of your life or the end of your what have you and be like, "Oh, I really wish I had done blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I didn't because I was scared." And that would make me really sad. The idea of that makes me really sad.
Alexis Lee:
Right. Agree.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Yeah.
Alexis Lee:
Well, I think we've covered so much.
Meagen Rosenthal:
We did, again.
Alexis Lee:
Again. We always do.
Meagen Rosenthal:
We do. Yes.
Alexis Lee:
And so hopefully you guys can take a little bit of nugget of something we said or maybe feel encouraged or feel like you're not alone or have an idea, or maybe you're spurred to go back and listen to all the episodes. We hope you do that. So we are so excited for what's ahead for the Mayo Lab podcast, and we have some really good things coming ahead, so we hope to see you next season.
But in the meantime, listen to season two. Listen to season one. You can find us on all the streaming platforms, YouTube, reach out to us, and any feedback, thoughts, ideas. If you want to hear something more from us or maybe there's a topic we haven't covered yet that you really are like, "Come on guys," shoot us an email, shoot us a DM. All of our stuff we'll link in the show notes. And so we're really thankful though for you guys listening and supporting, and it means so much to Meagen and I and the whole team behind it that we have people that tune in every week to listen. So thank you guys and have a great day.
Meagen Rosenthal:
Thank you all.
Voiceover:
Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Mayo Lab Podcast. The Mayo Lab Podcast is produced by Dr. Natasha Dieter, Dr. Meagen Rosenthal, Alexis Lee, Slade Lewis, and Hannah Finch.
This podcast is recorded at Broadcast Studio in Oxford, Mississippi. The show was mixed and mastered by Clay Jones, and our original music was composed by Slade Lewis. The Mayo Lab Podcast is brought to you by the William Magee Institute for Student Wellbeing. For more information on the Mayo Lab Podcast, head over to themayolab.com and follow us on social media @mayolab. If you enjoyed listening to the Mayo Lab Podcast, we'd love for you to subscribe, rate, and give a review on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you are listening to this podcast.
This podcast represents the opinions of Dr. Meagen Rosenthal, Alexis Lee, and their guests on the show. This podcast is not intended to be a substitute for the medical advice of a licensed counselor or a physician. The listener should consult with their mental health professional in any matters relating to his or her health or the health of a child.